The manager multiplier: Bringing development into the flow of work

Host: [00:00:00] Welcome to Talent Talks, the L&D podcast about the future of work and the talent driving it forward. Today, learning leaders are expected to do more, do it better, and do it faster than ever before. To strengthen teams, scale training, and to show results. Because when learning works, businesses move forward.

Together, we’ll explore what that really means for L&D in growing organizations. What to rethink, what to refine, and what to double down on. I’m your host, Gina Lionatos, and this is Talent Talks.

Talent Talks is brought to you by TalentLMS, the easy-to-use training platform that helps growing businesses launch faster and see results sooner. [00:01:00] Learn more at talentlms.com.

On today’s episode,

Al Dea: When you have a much clearer idea as a manager or leader who is good at what, who has development areas in what, and also who has interest in new types of things, as you’re thinking about structuring roles or responsibilities or development opportunities, that insight feeds how you make those choices and how you can put people in positions to succeed 

Host: If most learning happens in the flow of work through feedback and real challenges, then why do so many managers feel unprepared to develop their teams?

How can we equip managers to actively develop talent? Rather than just overseeing it? Joining us to explore all this and more is leadership expert and future of work strategist, Al Dea. We’ll look at the missing link between middle management and L&D, what it truly means to be a talent steward, and the everyday practices to help teams grow in real time.

Stay with us.[00:02:05] 

Al, welcome to Talent Talks. Absolutely thrilled to have you with us today. 

Al Dea: Thank you so much for having me.

It’s a great honor to be here.

Host: So I’m going to start with quite a big question here, and sometimes I like to get started in the deep end. So this is how we’re gonna go with it today. A recent Gartner study showed that leadership development has been the number one HR priority for three years running.

Yet we know that many managers say that they feel unprepared to actually develop their teams. And on top of that, research shows organizations often hire new managers rather than developing them internally. So we have quite an interesting contradiction. We expect managers to build capability in others, but we’re not always building that capability in them.

From your perspective, Al, what are the organizations getting wrong about a manager’s role in [00:03:05] developing talent?

Al Dea: Wow. What a great question. Let’s try to, let’s try to unpack this. So I think what the first thing is, what you’re highlighting, is that there appears to be a disconnect from what broadly speaking in enterprise, and probably more specifically HR, is saying is a priority versus the thoughts and feelings and lived experiences of what managers are actually feeling, uh, themselves.

So there could be a number of possibilities for that. One is there’s a straight-up disconnect. Two is that both actually are right in their own regard, but the expectation around perhaps what HR or learning or talent is providing and the expectation of what managers actually feel like they need is not well defined, and perhaps there is a gap.

You know, I think the other thing that is also possibly true and could be true in this perspective as well is, given the amount of burden that managers and leaders are often on the receiving end of, there is also a world in here where perhaps there just isn’t [00:04:05] enough to go around. And on top of that, as you mentioned, in terms of the needs that managers have in terms of making sure that they’re adequately prepared and capable to do their jobs, as well as in many organizations, the expectation that they will go and do that to other people, is all constrained by the fact that none of us have enough time in the day to do all the things that we want to do. 

And I often think that depending on how well that expectation is defined that will ultimately correlate to whether or not that actually happened. But it’s not hard also for me to see a world where even if there is an expectation that leaders will do this, if a specific leader doesn’t actually feel like they’re capable of doing it or actually hasn’t been, uh, enabled or shown how to do it, well, it just makes it a lot harder for them to actually want to lean into something like that. And so those are a couple reasons of where that disconnect might lie.

Host: Some interesting data we uncovered in one of our recent [00:05:00] Talent LMS research reports showed that almost half of the managers surveyed say that the company that they work at is not doing enough to develop future leaders.

Where do you think leadership sits, or I guess middle management sits within, uh, the way that organizations think about the leadership pipeline?

Al Dea: It’s one of those things where there are a couple elements to this. So I think the first element of it is that while I think there’s a difference between leadership as a noun and leadership as a verb. So I think where organizations may have gone off in the past is that they forgot this idea that the whole concept of leadership is being able to achieve more as a collective than you could be able to do on your own.

And I would argue that if you work in a global organization today, regardless of whether or not you’re a formal people leader or not, like that is an actual skill ability, competency, capability that every single employee needs, right? That’s just how you get work done today. But more specifically, as we get into leadership as a noun in terms of formal leaders in an [00:06:00] organization, oftentimes what ends up happening is that companies and organizations, understandably so, have to make choices about how they allocate where they prioritize their investments in terms of being able to work with certain populations because we don’t have unlimited funds and research. 

And it’s actually really fascinating. I actually did a little bit of research on my own last year where as part of the research, I went and interviewed probably about 150 or so, talent and learning professionals. And I actually asked ’em, I said, Hey, if you had a hundred thousand dollars and you could spend it on frontline employees, middle managers, exec development, or individual contributors. Where would you spend it? And interestingly enough, most people actually said either frontline or middle manager.

Now what someone says versus what they actually do in an organization, sometimes there is a gap between the two, and maybe that could explain some of this, but I could also see a world where I would never fault anyone for wanting to invest in those frontline managers because I just think they’re so critical in terms of being the heartbeat of the organization and really being the front door [00:07:00] for really understanding customers.

But perhaps with those folks in the middle it kind of is assumed, maybe not so rightfully so that, oh, they’ve done it before, so they’ll be okay. Like they don’t maybe need it as much. And I think the reality is that for many reasons, that role in particular is really hard because so much of being in that middle layer is being able to take in expectations that others who have made decisions have taken and then carrying them out and messaging that to your employees. And in many cases you may not agree with those things. You may not fully understand them, but the expectation is that you will actually make sure that they happen. And on the other side of that, I’m not always sure certain that feedback flows the other way, right?

In terms of do they actually feel empowered to speak up and to provide feedback back about, hey, that change actually wasn’t a good idea, or, Hey, here’s what we did, did well, but can be done better? And so I think there is an opportunity, I think really to really think through as well what the expectations are in particular of those folks in the middle, because it does [00:08:00] really feel like they’re getting squeezed on all sides.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. As a manager myself, I have a bit more skin in the game on this particular episode. So a lot of what you’re saying rings true, and management really is that force multiplier within, um, within an organization. Right. So I think that the importance can’t be overstated. You yourself have written about this kind of tension before, where middle managers have all the responsibility but perhaps none of the power. So if we do expect managers to be responsible for developing people and to truly become talent stewards, so to speak, what capability do they actually need to be equipped with to do that well?

Al Dea: Sure. I think it starts first, even before the capabilities, with something I said earlier, which is around accountability and expectations.

They need to know and be made aware as part of their job that this is something that is the expectation. And that there will be consequences—positively and not so positively—if they do or do not [00:09:00] do this. And so, assuming that is something that’s in place, when we get down to a more nitty-gritty tactical and capability perspective, what does it actually take?

I think it takes a couple things. I think first and foremost, it takes an openness and willingness to actually understand the strengths, the aptitude, the intrinsic motivation of each of your employees, right? When you have a much clearer idea as a manager or leader who is good at what, who has development areas and what, and also who has interest in new types of things, as you’re thinking about structuring roles or responsibilities or development opportunities, that insight feeds how you make those choices and how you can put people in positions to succeed. 

I don’t know about you, but I’ve certainly been in situations in my career where I wasn’t in the right role, and all it took was a little bit of a tweak to get moved over just a little bit, and then all of a sudden I was performing at a much, much higher level.

That’s just one small example of just a small thing, just even you can do when you [00:10:00] have a much better attunement and awareness to what are our people even capable and good at? And honestly, some of that honestly is just nothing other than old-fashioned listening, understanding, and spending time with your employees.

I think a more practical, tactical capability that leaders need to have, though, is to really understand that how to structure development opportunities right in the context of how someone works and operates each and every day. While I love, and I’m sure you love formal learning experiences and believe that they absolutely play a role.

Most leaders and most employees spend way more time in the flow of their work than they do being in a formal experience. And so as a leader, the more you can think about, how do I find ways for people to almost accidentally fall into these development experiences by little tweaks or little or additions or little I call them practices of development, but you can call ’em whatever you want ’em. 

Uh, the more you can do that and just inculcate them right into the flow of how they work, the more likely that they’re gonna be able to pick them up and run with ’em. [00:11:00] And you’re gonna start to see the benefits of that. And that can be anything from taking the existing workflows, norms, and cadences that you already have, like team meetings, like one-on-ones, like weekly updates, things like that. And finding small moments to provide opportunities for people to develop. 

I think that’s such an untapped opportunity that every manager or every leader has the ability to do. 

And then I would say the last thing is just this general idea of being able to make invitations. Uh, the whole idea behind this is that a lot of us, just because of human nature, don’t really always love being told what to do, you may have heard of the concept of reactance theory, which the metaphor for this is that if you’re ever a child and your parents ever told you, don’t touch the hot stove, what was your first immediate reaction next? To go and touch the hot stove.

Right? And so when we get told to do things or we get told, Hey, you need, should you need to do this or you need to do that, we don’t always have a reaction that is [00:12:00] a positive in wanting to do that thing. But it ties back to being a manager leader for a second. I think the more you can make invitations, the more you can encourage people to try out a new skill to let them know, Hey, you’re really good at X. What would it look like for us to be able to get you more opportunities to do X? 

Or, Hey, you did a great job in that meeting. Navigating that complex situation with clients. Let’s find more ways to get you more client interaction. Those are types of things that when you make those invitations, people feel welcomed.

People feel like they belong. People feel like they’ve been seen. And I think that makes them more interested and excited and committed to wanting to own that development from there on forward.

Host: I love this, uh, idea of practices of development and the invitations as well. I would love to dig into this a little bit deeper, if you could. Perhaps, if you’ve got any examples of people doing it well, teams or uh companies or clients of yours that you’ve seen do this particularly well. I’d love to know more.

Al Dea: So the whole idea of practices of development [00:13:00] really does stem from that idea that there are only so many hours in a day that someone can actually spend on formal learning experiences.

And more likely than not, they’re gonna be spending most of the time doing the work itself. And so if you can find small ways to make interventions or to create space for people to almost accidentally fall into development because it’s so natural and just integrated to how they go about their workflow, it gives them a chance to step into those development opportunities without even really thinking about it. But that is the role of the manager or leader, because not every employee will just do that on their own. But as a manager or leader, most of the time you are familiar with things like how to scope work, about how to assign projects, about how to match skills to opportunities, things like that.

And so that’s really where the concept stems.

In terms of how it shows itself in actuality or how it gets practiced on the day-to-day, the cool thing about it is that you can make this so precise and unique to the specific workflow that you have or the specific kind of work that you do. Uh, one of my favorite things to do, and one of the things I encourage any leader to do, is to [00:14:00] structure these things called bullpen sessions.

And the whole idea behind a bullpen session is to bring three to four people together who all are in a similar role, but maybe working on different things. And everyone gets 15 minutes. And in those 15 minutes you get to talk specifically for five minutes about a deliverable that you’re working on. The next five minutes, the other three people ask you questions to help you think better about what you just produced.

And the last five minutes, everyone gives you feedback on one or two things that you could do better to make whatever you’re doing even better. That’s one hour right there for people. You get feedback, you get expert insight, you get new ideas that you couldn’t have gotten elsewhere, and you get a chance to learn from your peers.

And then finally, one of the most simple ones that I encourage every employee to do and every leader to do for their employee for that matter, is if you’ve got a one-on-one doc, stick a section in that one-on-one doc that just says: What are the three things that I learned this week? And make your employees fill that out every week, and then in the next one-on-one, spend the first five minutes of that conversation talking through what [00:15:00] those things meant to that employee, what they observe from it, and how that could be factored in.

But as you can see, I’ve given a bunch of diverse examples of how these things come to life. You could riff easily and make your own off of them, but the general idea behind it is how do we bring development to where people are versus taking ’em away from somewhere where it’s gonna be a lot harder for them to access?

Host: I love that, and I mean, it’s such a balancing act, right? We don’t want to burden managers with unnecessary admin that can sometimes come with structured performance development. It is important, obviously, especially considering how stretched managers are these days. I think that there is really something there to building it into the work. But I think the manager there certainly needs to find ways to track that skills visibility and make sure that if they’re building it into the flow of work and if it’s happening organically, making sure that they’re then identifying the areas that have been built on through the flow of work.

Because I think if it’s happening a little bit more [00:16:00] organically, there can be that risk of not tracking it, perhaps. Is that something you could speak to a little bit more, perhaps some hacks of how to build in that measurement or that skills visibility in the day-to-day? 

Al Dea: It’s a good question. I’d say a couple things.

So first off, over time, you’re gonna know, and the reason why you’re gonna know is either because you are now able to assign different types of work, and I would argue higher quality work, to people if they are actually developing the flow of work because their capabilities will have expanded. So if that’s happening, then that’s a good sign.

The other thing that you’ll probably start to see, and I’ve seen this play out time and time again, is that if you do these things right, people actually start doing these for one another. People start hosting their own bullpen sessions. People start inviting other people to learn from one another, and so you start to see these cultural norms start to take into effect. 

We’ve talked about a culture of learning for years and how much L&D plays a role in that, and they absolutely do, but you start to see it happening in the context of a team that’s [00:17:00] doing it for one another, very, very organically. But more concretely, I mean, there certainly are things like being able to tie it to performance management in terms of your actual goals system, making sure that you actually, as a manager or leader, are giving that feedback—particularly if they are developing—so that there is a record of it, to your point, and to show that they’re progressing.

Because again, assuming that those are things that your organization really does value—watching people learn and grow and develop and take on new skills and, and progress to new, having new capabilities—making sure you use any processing or any form that you have to be able to articulate that, I think is really important.

My bed general guidance is instead of trying to create something that’s new, to ladder up to what already exists, uh, because I think there’s just a lot more energy in there as well as just ease versus trying to start something new. But I also think, again, as a manager or leader, and as someone who has managed and led teams in a former life, you will know it when you see it. Because it will be able to change the nature and the trajectory of what some of your people are doing, which in turn [00:18:00] changes what you are able to do. And finally, last thing, and most selfishly, in many cases, if you actually do this right, it actually frees you up as a manager or leader because all of a sudden your people are taking on better, new and higher quality things, which gives either you time to think or to plan, or to strategize or allows you to find other higher quality things that you are capable of doing too.

Host: Yeah. Definitely makes sense. I read a really interesting article, I think it was published by MIT, where they argue for the importance of what they called talent champions. Leaders who actively identify potential, develop employees, and advocate for talent within their teams. What’s your advice to those managers out there listening who want to shift?

They want to shift from simply managing performance to actively championing talent. I’m sure they’re all time-poor, but the intent is there. So how can we help these managers shift from simply managing performance to being able to actively [00:19:00] championing their talent?

Al Dea: Sure. And the being time-poor is a, it’s a very real challenge.

I think there is an expression out there, and forgive me if this doesn’t land. I know there’s, you have a global audience who listens to this, but the expression is that Beyoncé has the same amount of hours in the day that you and I both do. And the whole idea behind it is that, look, unless someone’s inventing a 25th hour and a 24-hour day anytime soon, we got what we got.

And so the better question is: for the time that you were there, what choices are you gonna make about the activities that really matter? And the first thing that I would say is a mindset shift for the manager leader to actually agree or to shift the mindset so that they actually do value those activities that make you a talent champion. In the same way that they would value the activities that allow you to manage your performance.

I think that’s the first thing, because you know, the time constraint, it’s a very real thing. I’m not trying to understate it by any means. But it’s what we got. And so then the question becomes, as [00:20:00] a leader, how do you make choices about how you wanna spend the time? So that’s the first piece of it. I think the second piece of it is related, which is being a talent champion or doing, being a developer of talent, those are investments that you make, right? And just like any investment, you make the investment upfront and it pays back over time. If you want to get the dividend, you have to make the deposit, right? And so part of this is really making sure that you are taking the right view of how these things happen.

Because we also know that development doesn’t always happen overnight, and you can make small progress for sure, but things take time. And those two things are not necessarily, I’m not saying they’re easy, but those are the types of mindset shifts that you need to think about before you can actually start getting into action. 

And the third piece of it is the getting into action piece.

I’m a big believer in small habits and practices intentionally, uh, acted over time. And the smaller you can do it to start. But the more consistently you can do it to start, the better you’re off you’re gonna be. Because the [00:21:00] reality of it is, like I said, none of these people are gonna magically develop overnight.

But the good news, which is good because it takes the pressure off of feeling like you have to do something truly monumental, and instead you can focus on a small number of practices, doing them really well and doing them really deliberately, and then seeing it happen over time. And I think what you’ll find is that once you get that mindset and once you take that approach to those small intentional practices, you will start to see the results pay off, and that will eventually help you shift into this mindset of being that developer of talent or talent champion.

Host: And I mean, you’ve shared so many great examples of how to build it into the flow of work. Any tips or behaviors that you think managers could apply in the day-to-day or in their weekly calendar or in their weekly or monthly practice to kind of help build in those micro moments?

Al Dea: Sure. So a small one, and I know quite a few teams do this.

It’s something I’ve recommended to a lot of my [00:22:00] clients, but I know other ones do, is if you’ve got Teams or if you’ve got Slack, just create a thread for hashtag learning or hashtag development, and every week drop a comment in there and say, Hey—what’s one thing that someone learned this week? And as a leader, make sure you go first in terms of sharing what you did.

So you model all the behavior that you wanna see. But that’s a really simple one, that can get people started and really again, start to build on that team, at least, this culture and this norm, and this expectation that it’s okay to learn. And if anything, it’s welcomed and it’s, it’s celebrated and it’s championed and it’s something that collectively the team can do together.

So that’s a really, a really simple one, at least to, to get things started. You know, I think the other thing, and again, these are small. These are small things you can do in things like team meetings and stuff like that, spend five minutes every team meeting where someone gets the mic to share something that they learned or something that they’re working on that’s a work in progress.

And you could put a little bit of structure into it. So you know, there’s some consistency as well as, again, starting to build these small practices that build over time. Where it can be either, Hey, here’s something I tried that didn’t work, and here’s what I [00:23:00] learned from it. And people can chime in and share any questions or any ideas for how they could improve it.

Or it could be, Hey, like I, I did try this new thing, and it worked really well, and here’s what I’m gonna do the next time. Or it could be, Hey, here’s what I’m thinking about in terms of how I’m gonna be investing in my career growth this year. Anything like that. I’m seeing this come up quite a bit, particularly as it relates to some of the AI experimentation and work that I’m seeing some of my clients do, or some of the organizations that I talk to think about, because that in particular, very much is a new way of working and sometimes the best way to think about new ideas is to get ideas from other people.

But these are just small things that, again, you don’t have to do all of them. You just have to find the ones that work for you and be intentional and committed, committed to them over a period of time.

Host: Yes, absolutely. I think every manager’s practice is a little different, so finding what fits and also within the team, right?

So it’s the manager’s style, but it’s also how the team responds. So it’s definitely a two-way street. 

So it’s obviously not just the traditional ways of training where managers [00:24:00] can fill gaps, as we discussed already. I think also managers are in a really great position to help connect employees, the people in their team, to people and other opportunities across the organization.

So essentially helping their teams build networks, learn more, whether it’s about the business, about the product, about the customer, and also potentially lay the path for career growth too. I’d love to hear what you make of this kind of connector role. That, in my opinion, is kind of an overlooked superpower of a manager.

Al Dea: I’m in agreement on this wholeheartedly. One of the things I often tell people that I learned early in my career is that your success is often correlated to the amount of people that want you to succeed. And so if you as a manager or a leader want your employees to succeed, one of the very simplest things that you can do is go out of your way to help them build the social capital and relationships that they need in order to be successful.

I think that, as I said to alluded to earlier in the beginning, in most organizations today, it requires you to work with [00:25:00] others and work through others in order to get things done. And so everyone, regardless of whether or not they’re a formal leader or they’re an individual contributor, needs valuable relationships to be able to influence others to get their job done, as well as obviously to be able to advance in their career.

And so, yeah, like I think it’s table stakes in terms of the role of the manager. If you actually are listening to this and you are a manager or leader and thinking about what is actually something really practical that I could go and do right now to help support my employees as they grow in their career or help them uplevel in their job, is to actually think about who are the two to three people that each of my employees, or one or two people, however you wanna frame it, uh, would benefit from connecting with, and how can I go and foster that connection?

Or I would say arguably a better way would be to work with ’em, to identify what is either an interest you have or an area that is really important to you where you’d like to meet more people. And then to go out of your way to make that introduction right. On top of other things like making sure that when your employees are [00:26:00] doing good work, that you’re advocating and talking about the work that they’re doing, and that you’re, they’re, you’re sharing it with other people on other teams. To make sure that when you’re in a meeting with your skip-level manager, that you’re championing those employees on your team who are doing great work.

Because the other aspect of career growth that a lot of people don’t always talk about is that it isn’t necessarily about the rooms that you’re in, but about who’s talking about you when you are not in the room. And so if this is something that you care about as a manager or leader in terms of wanting to invest in those, the growth of your employees, to me, these are just very rudimentary and great places to start.

Host: If you think about the L&D or HR leaders out there listening to this, and I think here the role of the L&D or the HR person in the success of the manager is so instrumental, right? And many of our L&D practitioners now moving away from the central training provider in the business role towards enabling managers to develop their own [00:27:00] teams.

What do you think would be two or three practical ways that L&D teams can really step in and help support, guide, boost managers, and help them become those multipliers of capability?

Al Dea: That’s a good question. So I think specifically for managers, I think there’s a couple things. So number one, you gotta always seek first to understand, and you really have to get close to what their lived experience is like in the day-to-day. And to really listen, but not prescribe, but truly listen to what’s working, what’s not, and more importantly, to really get answers to the questions around what support do they need? What are those activities, capabilities, or whatever you wanna call them, that allow them to deliver outsized impact? Or in some cases, what are the specific customer problems that they need to be focused on like the most? I think if you start to really do a, whatever you wanna call it, [00:28:00] ride-alongs, listening tour, walk the walls, whatever it is, like, I don’t care what you call it, but just to go out and find that information. That is your starting point. That is your baseline.

I talked with a Head of People at a technology company recently, and when I asked her to describe what her team was focused on, she said, basically what I told my team was to go out and go find the problems and the pain points of our managers and then build products that solve for those problems.

I think the second thing would be around really getting into their specific workflows. I think a lot of times the easiest way to do this is to do it by function or a business unit or by some, some kind of precision. ‘Cause I think broadly speaking, sometimes it can be a little hard. But really getting in there, and figuring out what are ways that we can support people in those moments or in those things. 

And a lot of times those will be other types of lightweight interventions, whether it’s tools, whether it’s data, whether [00:29:00] it’s job aids, whether it’s, there could be all sorts of things. But I would really encourage people to think about those lightweight things that are in the context of their work before they deviate to programs or bringing people out.

Although that, they it may need, they may need it, but I would really encourage people to think about meeting people, these people where they are first. And on that notion, I actually think in some cases it might even make sense to do some team-based interventions or team-based work itself.

And so I know that those things do not always scale, but if your goal is to actually try to make an impact and also to try to build some credibility, that can be a really good Trojan Horse because the team will clearly see you in action and see the value that you provide. And assuming that you do a great job, they’re gonna come back to you and say, ask for more.

And so I think that’s another thing that’s worth considering, uh, as you’re thinking about how do we better [00:30:00] support those managers and leaders. And then the last thing I would just say is just a broad blanket statement of, I think every day most people go to work to do a good job. I don’t think anyone goes to work to do a bad one.

But there’s a lot of friction that often gets in the way from people being able to actually do their jobs effectively. And I think that goes for managers and leaders. And so as a continuation, I think of the first thing I said, really going out and truly trying to identify what are those points of friction for our managers and leaders, and what can we do to either remove it, automate it away or give them tools to navigate through it. 

I think if you start there, you’ll definitely find a lot of people who are fans of the work that you’re doing. 

Host: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So we recently had Kevin Yates on the podcast. Kevin is known as the L&D Detective.

Al Dea: I know Kevin. He’s a good guy.

Host: Okay, great. Okay. He’s wonderful. So Kevin, as you know, he’s a big advocate of the idea of it taking a [00:31:00] village to develop talent within organizations. And I think also this conversation that we’re having really speaks to that as well. It feels like we’re going through a transformation here, right across industries and across companies, where job roles are constantly being redefined in L&D, HR, and beyond, and you know, it’s exciting, but it’s also disorienting. So from your perspective, Al, how can we as leaders, be within that middle management, whether it’s middle management, whether it’s C-suite or departmental, how can we help our teams through times of change? It’s a very big, broad topic, but I would just love your take on it. 

Al Dea: Yeah, for sure. I think any conversation around change has to start with a conversation around some of the basics of how humans thrive and survive and respond. I think that anytime humans are experiencing change, it’s important to remember that humans are wired to survive, right?

And so, that initial reaction [00:32:00] might be one of a human trying to really protect itself, and that’s a good thing. The reason why you and I are here today is because our ancestors over the years learned how to survive when there were threats around change, right? And so I think that’s important to remember is that whenever a change is happening or whatever changes are happening, while sure there will always be some people who are excited about it or happy about it in some ways that not everyone might be, and the reason why is not because they disagree with it, or not necessarily because it’s bad, but because their human response is working in the way that it is trained to work in. 

I think the second piece of it, which speaks to a little bit of the first, is that while all of us may experience the process of change together, the lived experience of change is actually pretty personal. We may be able to go through a methodology around change together, but how I feel about that [00:33:00] change is going to be different than how you feel about the change and how our other teammate feels about the change, et cetera. So the invitation then for leaders is to actually figure out where your employees are experiencing this change and what comes up for them. Because loaded in whatever change is happening is their own history with it, their own identity, their own beliefs around it. And you as a leader, you may, those types of things that they might be thinking or feeling, those things don’t always come up in a spreadsheet.

And so, really kind of meeting people where they are. I think a third thing is to try to, whenever it’s possible, to remind people of what isn’t changing. Stability can sometimes provide the clarity that we need, at least to stay grounded and at least to put one foot in front of the other so we can keep going.

So, as much as you’re communicating what is changing, don’t forget to remind people about what is actually staying the same. And then perhaps the last thing on this is this idea of agency. And whenever it’s [00:34:00] possible of providing opportunities for employees to use that agency to participate in the change.

When people feel like they have been given a chance to voice their ideas, their contributions, their concerns, to actively participate in the change that is impacting them, it often goes a lot further and a lot smoother than foisting it on someone and expecting them to carry it out. I could talk about this topic for a long time, so I’ll keep it to those four things for now.

Host: I mean, it’s such a big topic, and there’s so much to it. I’d love to have a whole other conversation with you about it, just as you’ve said too. But thank you for your insights on that. And generally, Al, thank you so much for the insights you’ve shared actually in today’s episode. I think as a manager myself, I know that this is an area that’s truly important to my peers as well, and also equally important to the L&D experts out there to kind of help ensure that we are giving managers what they need to be able to empower their teams and drive the business forward.

So thank you so [00:35:00] much for being a part of Talent Talks. It’s been a pleasure to have you.

Al Dea: It was a pleasure being here. Thank you so much.

Host: Training that isn’t tied to skills is hard to measure and even harder to improve. TalentLMS Skills helps you see your team’s strengths, spot gaps, and assign the right training all in one place. So you’re not just delivering training, you’re building lasting capability.